Teacher Comments

Girls - Thanks for the insightful and honest responses. You pose so many well considered points it is difficult to respond. It was a difficult task for many reasons. The aim of the task was to develop independent reading strategies and discuss topical ideas related to the text. I tried to give you generic questions (the reading strategies task sheet) which you could apply to each text, but it is difficult to be specific when each book is different. I think one of the main problems with your blog, was group cohesion. You guys didn't seem to communicate with each other much, your group seemed fragmented and no one took the initiative of organising people into roles or responsibilities or even commending people on their thoughts or questions. I can appreciate that this can be socially awkward when you are not working with people you would normally hang out with, but without organisation people will always take the easist option.


I thought jamie's comments about learning were particularly insightful. Perhaps teacher centred tasks do help you learn more or more correctly prepare you for the final destination which is TEE exams. I guess we as teachers do 'force ideas down the throats' of students in order to make them better prepared for TEE etc. In response to Jodi and Tiffany, unfortunately this does mean giving you lots of Essays. Teachers have a responsibilty to follow the curriculum. However as Jamie put it, student centered learning does allow you to learn more about yourself. Personally I'm more suited to this style or environment for learning, I like to set my own boundaries and explore my own ideas. The problem with giving students this task, is that because parameters are not clearly set and only rough outlines given, students can either struggle with the freedom (lack of direction) or look for easy options out.

In regards to your final comments about relating to oneself, I think you need to understand that the discussion forum is a lot more personal and less structured than your standard english style essay. There were no wrong answers. I personally can relate to the whole private school snobbery issue and reading the book brings back memories of growing up in Perth and makes me think about relationships etc from an outsiders perspective. I also relate to issues of cultural heritage and identity. It is from my experiences and knowledge that I am able to draw bigger meanings, which are unique and yet shared at the same time.

Jamie's Book Club Reflection

Over the past 6 weeks we have been intrusted with the task of creating an online blog.
It required strong self discipline, something that a few of us had some problems with .

We encountered many problems along the way, some of them more time consuming than others ;

• the fact that it took us a while to actually discover this site was annoying especially when we wasted time experimenting with others - i now have many saved attempts of Microsoft Frontpage, my father will be very ashamed,
• the fact that me and holly had a different blog to Stace, Jodi, tiffany and renae. It meant that we had to copy and paste every post onto theirs, making it so that me and holly were very much behind everyone else ( holly still reamins so).
• We were never sure what exactly we had to discuss and that left us all wandering aimlessly ( figuritivly speaking).

However, gripes aside, this assingment was a very interesting venture, and, for those of us who were dedicated, we did raise some very good issues.

I think the biggest problem with our group was that we never actually discussed anything, we were very good at creating new posts and not so good at replying to others. I think that perhaps we could of, as a group, had got together more and divided up the task making sure that everyone cut in the same amount of effort and that others didnt get the credit that actually belongs to the others.

From an education point we probbaly learn more from a teacher directed task but with this student directed course i learnt more about myslef and discovered issues in the book that i hadn't realized were there before.I certainly appreciated what i had learnt more than if a teacher had stood at the front of a classroom focing his/her views and opinions down our throats.


I think that in eastern cultures alot of students lack self discipline, and, because of this will always rely on a teacher figure; whether that means they will stillexist in classrooms and schools or we regress to being a completly technology dependant society and are taught through online forums!


I, as a person, have always had strong opinions and take pleasure in sharing them. I understand that this is the main aim of a book group. I probably wouldn't be in one now, seeing as it is hard ( and nearly impossible) to have inteligent discussions with teenagers today, with out them refering to some ridicoulous peice of popular culture or something else ludricrously boganish ( i consider myself highly cultured - obnoxious! yes, i know but i do generally see it that way).
If the oppurtunity does arise when im older to join a book club then i will definately accept!
I think that by listening to others views and combiing them with your own you can sometimes see the novel on a whole new level!

Can You Relate?

Tiffany: i do not relate except I'm a teenage girl. I'm not abused because of my race , i am not abused because of my family. i don't go to a private christian school. i don't feel the need to change my life. i have both my parents and they are still together. my friends arent like hers, they dont pressure me or anything. i do know however how much it hurts to lose someone. i felt so sorry for josephine when she found out john barton had overdosed.

Jodi: I don't really get abused at school so I don't really know how it feels. I think that wanting to fit in really effects everyone. The pressure to be 'cool' & to live up to your parents expectations always contradict each other. Your parents want you to be good at school and always want you to do your best, but your friends just want to have fun at school and don't really get much done. I have never lost anyone to suicide although I know a few who have tried. It hurts a lot to know that there isn't anything you can do about it, whats done is done and you can't help. I can't exactly say that i know how Josie feels but i have a pretty good idea. I know what it's like to not have a father because my mum and dad have been separated for 8 years and divorced for 3 of those years.

Jamie: although i have never encountered racism, i do have an understanding of whats its like for Josie, i myself am part Italian. I share alot of her trates, im judgmental, overdramatic and very much inclined to over proprtion my problems. My family is huge and our get togethers are reminscent of Josie's. I know what it feels like to resent your family. thats about where the comparison stops. my parents are still together ( unfortunately) and im not an only child.
I have some friends who are like josie's, they pressure you into things but i think that thats part of being a teenager.However the character i related to most wsa John Barton, i understand his feelings and views and infact have similiar ones myself. I understand the pressure he is under to impress. I also share his cyncism.

Teacher Comments

Girls - Your reading blog started well with some interesting discussion, but then you appear to have lost direction. Rather than outlining the plot, characters and themes, I would have liked you to have discussed how you relate to issues in the book. You could have talked about the pressures placed on adolescents by parents and teachers or your cultural heritage or why people committ suicide.

In your reflection I would like you to discuss what happened to your discussion. Were (are) my expectations too high or was the task too difficult or were there problems in the task I did not accomodate for. Would you have preferred me to have chosen the book for you and given you chapter questions with an essay at the end?

You still have a chance to resurrect this blog




Replys


Jamie:
Dear Sir
I appreciate your attempt to modernise yourself and relate to us .
i think the fault lies with all of us; perhaps you could have explained in more detail the assingment and perhaps we could, as students,could have shown more self discipline.
It was hard to focus ourselves when we never actually had some set out questions.
Howewver, the fact that you let us choose our own books
is something that we will be gratefull for because it meant that
we couldnt complain about the subject matter
and, for those of us who were lucky enough to choose a 'good' book, it meant that we actually attempted to finish the book ( some of even succeeded).
In answer to your question " should i have given you an essay" ABSOLUTELY NOT - there is more to english than just doing essays
and so far my experiances with Ms Klein
and from what i have heard about you from others, you both have not demenstrated this!
Also sir, isnt it necessary to udnerstand the broader themes and how society places values on these themes in order for us to understand as individuals the effect that these said themes/values would have on our own personal values which inturn is a reflection on society values.

John Barton - Transgression from Depression to Suicide

Jamie:
The suicide of John Barton is major turning point in Josies path to freedom.
As John attempts to reach out to Josie we get an insight on the pressure that he is under.
Josie finds this information hard to cope with and chooses denial over understanding.
It's as if she doesn't want to believe that John might have faults.
John feels ennormous pressure to live up to his fathers expectations of John one day becoming the priminister of Australia or something else of that calibre.
The abscence of support from his family shows his fathers lack of genuine love.

Towards the end of the book josie comments on john's appearance, saying that 'he looks a hundred times worse.... as if he has lost lots of weight, his face is blotchy and pale" John confides that his fathers expectations are becoming more than a burden " i have to keep on winning ... keep on being the best", but he simply just dosnt have the courage to tell his father he dosn't want to study law insiting that upon hearing that his fatjer would kill him. It's apparent to Josie that he has a problem that runs deeper than just a father- son disagreement. However Josie is shocked when John tells her " i dont think i want to live this life any more", she is even more shocked when he tells her her belief in god is naive and that he is an atheist!Josie keeps hoping that any second he'll turn around and say "april fools Josie"

Josie attempts to help John with his problems, suggesting they write down their feelings on a peice of paper and give them to each other, which wont be opened untill after HSC. Josie finnaly holds in her hands " the soul of john barton"

The last encounter Josie has with John is when they bump into each other at a rugby union game. JOhn, unlike his usual cynical self is happy and light-hearted.
John tells Josie that although she dosnt realize it, her and Ivy are very similiar and he wants them to be friends.
He admits to having a crush on Josie in yr 10, and its as if he is getting things off his chest.
he comfortts josie in her expressions of anxiety about HSC. He encourages her to make the most of her future and insistes that his future is his own to do whatever he wants with it.
They leave each other in a mood of optimism and its not untill the day after thet Josie realizes that she maywell have been the last person to see John alive. she remebers the paper on which john wrote down his thoughts.

Can you see what i see?
No i dont hink you can
I see images pof nothing
and i attempt to make that
nothingness mean something
as hard as i try there is
still nothinhg and that nothing
is meanignless
i am somewheere else now, outside
i am surrounded by people and
the blueness of the sky
but still nothing has changed
everything remains the same
I am still alone

After reading the poem josie sits on the floor, trying to remeber what she had written to him.
but she cant.
she slowly tares up the poem and openoing up the window she lets the peices be taken away on the morning wind. imeediately she regrets it and wants to collect all of the peices and join them back up again, but understands that that is impossible.

His funeral is packed with people of all ages, its clear that in even the smallest way john meant something to a lot of people and his death would have a far greater effect on their livres than he ever thought possible.

Suicide is a major problem in society, and not just today's. In some cultures it is viewed as dishonourable and in eastern cultures it is considered illegal to kill oneself. Some churches refuse funerals to those who have commited suicide, saying they have performed an act against god and that surely they will be taken by the devil down into the fiery pits of hell. I think John's Cynicysm towrads religion made it easiert for him to accept his fate,and that if he had of believed it would have been much harder for him to commit suicide.

what reamins is the question
in the case of some one like john who sees no purpose for himself on earth is it wrong of him to commit the unholy act, or is it wrong for us to prevent him from doing so, meaning that he will never achive freedom?

an Interview with Marchetta

jamie- hey guys i found an interview ( it said it was a n interview but actuallly apperas to be a report) with th emaster storyteller that is Melina Marchetta.

http://www.lakemac.infohunt.nsw.gov.au/library/links/hschelp/english/interview.html


SCAN Vol 12 No 4 October 1993

Her life since winning the awards
Melina's life is hectic because of being a full-time student with a part-time job. The routine of this hasn't changed, so that she has not had much time to think about the implications of winning both awards with a first novel. When pressed about it, she became very enthusiastic, and said that she was 'bugged out by being short-listed'. She was 'so rapt' to be in the company of authors like Gillian Rubenstein and Brian Caswell, whom she's always admired. The high point of receiving the Children's Book Council award in Melbourne for Melina was having her family there. She enjoys meeting other authors and illustrators and finds them idealistic people, with no jealousy, and sharing a common thread of love of children's literature.


The process of writing
Melina's approach to writing is unstructured, in that she doesn't set aside four hours a day to write, but gets to it as she can. It seems to worry her that she has so many competing demands on her time - from her studies and from her large family with whom she still lives. She hopes to go away at Christmas time this year and write solidly, on her own, for two months. She says that her books don't have a strong storyline, describing the one she's working on now as 'wishy washy'. She likes to work out the interaction between her characters and the story line evolves as do the characters. Melina's characters are so real to her, that she spoke about them as if they were alive. For example, when she was talking about Josephine being at a passionate stage of her life where she doesn't yet know that 'people will understand more if you speak less', she said 'I know that she will grow out of it' and then, as if to remind herself 'No she won't, she's a character'.
When she has let the story evolve into a first draft, Melina works on it to make it as perfect as she can. With Alibrandi, she worked with Erica Irving of Penguin to reorganise parts of it, to cut it down, to edit some of the minor characters such as Sister Louise, who played a much bigger part in the first draft of the story, and Christina, who is the one character that Marchetta would like to pick up on again some time in the future.

Her next novel
Melina is working on a book quite unlike Looking for Alibrandi, except that it is also set in a boarding school and the characters are 17 years old. The new book is like Alibrandi in that interaction between characters is of prime importance. It is at the first draft stage, and the storyline is still in the process of evolving. She is moving the chapters around to find the right place for them. She is refreshingly modest about this second book, and confesses to fears that people won't like it. However, when she writes, she forgets all about misgivings, and becomes totally engrossed in what she is doing.

Reasons for writing for the young adult group
'I don't know, but I know I always will'. She finds this group fascinating, identifies strongly with it and likes the stage teenagers are at of being so open to change and growth, so vulnerable yet so exuberant. She thinks that at 28, she is still very similar to them in tastes, and that today's teenagers are maturing very much faster than those of her time. She cares about the pressures young people are under - such as the HSC, and vulnerability to self-really use, because she mixes with them daily with her own family and in her induced problems.is ab Melina le to write about teenagers with truth and in the language they teaching and because it is not long since she was that age herself.
It was when she began to talk about Looking for Alibrandi that Melina really opened up and she is much more at ease talking about the book than about herself.


What is the essential concern she has in her writing?
Growth through interaction of characters is Melina's essential concern, both in Looking for Alibrandi and the book she is writing now. She said several times during the interview that she respects the readers' right to their own perceptions of what Looking for Alibrandi is about, and to predict outcomes for the characters in the story. Melina sees Looking for Alibrandi as being about Josephine's growth to freedom through the interaction of the women of the three generations of Alibrandis - Katia Alibrandi, Christina Alibrandi, and herself.
Further changes come about in Josephine from interaction with other characters, namely:·
her father, Michael Andretti·
her boyfriend, Jacob Coote·
her suicidal friend, John Barton·
her girlfriends, and Poison Ivy, the school captain whom Josephine misjudges, and·
Sister Louise, the school principal.

Grandmother Katia is the source of greatest comedy in the book, which surprised Melina who has discovered that people laugh aloud when she reads extracts from the book involving Katia. She didn't intend to be funny and is drawing on both of her own grandmothers as the source of Katia. She is really just using their language in Katia's mouth. Josephine has two obsessions - her own illegitimacy and her Italian descent. Grandmother Katia grates on both - as she has appeared to reject Christina for having Josephine illegitimately and because she is almost a caricature of an older Italian woman. As Josephine interacts with her grandmother in the story, and discovers the secret in the old woman's past (that she too gave birth to an illegitimate child, Christina), she grows towards freedom - she realises she is proud of her Italian descent, and that her obsession with illegitimacy has been just as great as her grandmother's.
The relationship between Christina and Josephine also leads towards Josephine's freedom and away from the problems which she brings upon herself. Melina likes the character of Christina, who was originally much more fully drawn. Christina has such strength, much more than Josephine gives her credit for. The character of Michael Andretti is the only point of criticism Melina has had about the book. Critics have said that he is not real and that Josephine is too accepting of him. Melina agrees that he is the only character in the book who is not based on a real person (all the others are random amalgams of people she knows). Melina believes that Josephine's acceptance of Michael is a stage in her growth to freedom.

Melina finds that Jacob is a very popular character. She says that to create him, she had to physically tell Josephine to shut up, to give him a go. Josephine's interaction with Jacob teaches her that her pigeon-holing of people into socioeconomic groups which are completely separate has been false, and that her snobbish attraction to the elite values of her school and the success she sees as personified by North Shore Sydney, with its wealth and success in the eyes of the world, has also been false. Josephine learns that she loves Jacob because he is completely himself and without pretensions of any kind. She also makes a significant choice not to have sex with him, another milestone along her road to self discovery. She chooses not to sleep with him because the time is not right. This contrasts with the decisions Katia and Christina made about sex when they were Josephine's age. Melina hates it when people say that they are so glad she has put 'the moral' point of view regarding sex, because that wasn't her point. It was just that Josephine wasn't ready and had the maturity to choose not to.
John Barton is the character that Melina finds it difficult to talk about. She says 'no-one is comfortable to kill off a character', but that it was not believable for John to come in at the end of the story and say that he had come to terms with his father. Melina knew all along that she would have to kill him. His suicide is about HSC pressure and parental pressure but it is more than that. There is an intrinsic weakness in John - he is not able to fight for his own freedom. Interaction between John and Josephine teaches Josephine that the priority that she puts on elite success - becoming a barrister, getting top marks in the HSC, winning debates and public speaking competitions, being school captain, etc. means nothing if you do not have the freedom to make your own way in life. His death shows her that she does have such freedom.
Josephine's girlfriends, the outrageous and hilarious Seraphina, nervous Anna, and Lee, who is very similar to Josephine, act as contrasts to Josephine along her path to freedom.
Josephine's jealous and misguided relationship with Poison Ivy, the school captain to her vice captain, changes at the end of the story when she discovers that John Barton was right, and that she and Ivy are very alike and could be friends, if Josephine could just not over react to Ivy's apparent racism. Melina made the point that this book is not about racism. 'It is about ignorance, and not just Anglo-Celtic ignorance. It is about Josephine's ignorance'.
Sister Louise, like Christina a much more fully drawn character in the first draft of the novel, is based upon some of the wonderful feminist nuns Melina came across in her own school days. It is in the encounter with Sister Louise after the very funny wagging of the school walkathon that we see the first indication of growth in Josephine. She acknowledges that she has been irresponsible and Sister Louise makes her realise that she has the potential for leadership.
Summing up JosephineMelina said that Josephine is really two different people at the beginning and the end of the book. In the beginning, Josephine is overdramatic, poised to react to any real or imagined slight to her Italian background and her illegitimacy; very inclined to put people into slots and to not allow for any overlapping. Her problems are not great, it is only her perception of them that gives them such importance. She is inclined to be self absorbed, and to over-react in ways that are sometimes silly e.g. spitting on the menacing boy in Macdonalds. Melina is upset when people quote her as not liking Josephine - it is just that she can see her faults, and is helping her along the way to getting rid of them. At the end of the book, Melina sees Josephine as beginning to achieve freedom - she has learnt that she has blown her problems out of all proportion, that not everyone is about to crucify her for being Italian and illegitimate. Josephine's interaction with the other characters has brought this about and it is this interaction which is the essential fascination of writing for Melina Marchetta. She has written in Looking for Alibrandi an amazing first novel. She is delighted with its success -there are 37,000 copies of it in print and sales are spectacular. Many schools have class sets. We finished the interview speculating on what would have happened to the characters in later life. Melina's confession: she would have had Jacob and Josephine find each other again after some years, Christina and Michael would get together too, as the essential respect is there, and ... wait for it, in wildest speculation, Marcus Sandford and Grandmother Katia would get back together!

All's well that ends well!
But it is up to the readers to make their own speculations.
Melina's next publication is a short story, tentatively called "Anna and Francesea", in a new Agnes Nieuwenhuizen anthology, also provisionally called Family, to be published in 1994.
Scan contacted Melina Marchette through Lateral Learning (Speakers for Schools), ph. (02) 9968 2067.

Brief Summary of Chapters 1 - 5

( apologies to all who havnt got this far, guess its about time you did)

Chapter 1: Introduced to Josie, sets up the background for the book, and her friends.Her Mother tells her that Michael Andretti ( josie's father) is back in town

Chapter 2: josie gives a description of her friends Sera, Anna and Lee. Have a Say day where Josie meets public boy, Jacob Coote.

Chapter 3: Introduced to Nonna, Josies Grandmother. She Meets Michael andretti for the first time.